Post by elp525 on Feb 13, 2011 9:03:39 GMT -5
February 12, 2011
By Dave Hickman
The Charleston Gazette
MORGANTOWN - There are, it can be argued, two ways to look at the fight for seeding in this year's Big East tournament.
It doesn't matter at all.
Or it makes every difference in the world.
Believe it or not, both can be legitimately argued.
West Virginia coach Bob Huggins, of course, is a proponent of the second of those two theories, that seeding means everything. That's why he was thrilled with another Big East win Saturday afternoon, even if it was the 82-71 victory against cellar dweller DePaul.
Forget the Big East tournament for a moment. The primary goal is to make it into the 68-team NCAA tournament field, which Huggins correctly argues is a lock for the Mountaineers provided they take care of business. Every win counts in that regard.
"We've got the fourth-best schedule in the country. We're 18th [actually 17th going into Saturday's games] or something in the RPI,'' Huggins said. "We're fine. We've just got to win some games.''
That whole Big East tournament seeding thing, though, is another matter entirely.
First, let's go with that first theory on how seeding isn't that important this season. The reason? Well, with eight current Top 25 teams comprising half the Big East field, and with five of the remaining eight teams owning at least one and sometimes more wins over those ranked teams, isn't the whole thing just a crapshoot?
If you're in that bottom half of the league, does it really matter if you're drawing Notre Dame or Villanova or Connecticut or Georgetown? What's the difference between that and drawing Syracuse, Louisville or West Virginia? Go ahead and name one team in that group that hasn't proven it can be beaten when few expect it to happen.
(Notice we omitted Pitt from that list. I'm still not convinced the Panthers aren't vulnerable, but to date they have not stumbled badly, so they get a pass here. OK, you don't want to be seeded eighth.)
Conversely, after the bottom eight teams finish with their play-in games on the opening Tuesday in New York, does it really matter who emerges to face the fifth-through-eighth seeds on Wednesday? Chances are good that the lower-seeded team there will have proven at some point during the season that it can play with the best, so is it really an advantage to draw, say, Seton Hall (a 22-point winner at Syracuse) or Rutgers (which just beat Villanova)? And shoot, the way things are going, it is very possible that one of those ninth- through-16th-place teams that play on Tuesday will be ranked.
So from that standpoint, no, seedings don't much matter. Just throw them all in a hat and see what comes out.
But while particular seeding spots don't seem to be terribly important this season, general seeding areas are. While it may not matter much whether a team is ninth or 12th or 16th, it certainly does matter to be in that ninth-through-16th area. In short, you don't want that. Those are the teams that have to play on Tuesday.
By the same token, while there is probably little difference between fifth and eighth place, being fifth through eighth matters because you don't play until Wednesday. And, of course, while first through fourth are interchangeable, just being first through fourth means not playing until Thursday.
"That's why seeding matters,'' Huggins said. "I don't know if there's ever been any league where you had to win five games. It's hard enough to win three.''
Indeed, playing on Tuesday means needing five wins in five days in the best conference in the history of basketball in order to win the tournament. Sorry, but that's not going to be done. Period.
So you'd better stay out of the bottom half of the standings.
But that's not going to be easy this year. The standings are so jumbled that even the coaches aren't always sure where they stand.
"What are we, in a five-way tie for something?'' Huggins asked Friday, the day before it all began to change again with a full slate of Big East games.
Well, yes, at that point the Mountaineers were in a five-way tie for seventh place. Tie-breakers at that point actually might have put West Virginia in the ninth spot, which would have meant a Tuesday game.
Or try this: As soon as Syracuse lost to Louisville Saturday, the Orange fell - at least temporarily - from sixth to 11th. This is a Syracuse team that four weeks ago was No. 4 in the country.
When WVU beat DePaul, the Mountaineers moved to within a game of third place. Then again, they were just a half game out of 11th place.
Of course, there are still three weeks remaining, so a lot can happen. But the point is that some really good teams are going to straddling that line between a Tuesday game and a bye. Further on up, just as many are going to toeing the line between a one-round bye and two days off.
That's certainly where seeding matters - not in who anyone plays, but how many.
"And the hard thing is you could conceivably play four ranked teams,'' Huggins said, apparently either discounting or failing to recognize that the number of ranked teams faced by a Tuesday participant could actually number five. "It's hard. It's a very difficult thing. There's not another league where you could conceivably end up playing four ranked teams.''
A year ago, West Virginia played just three games and won the tournament and it served the Mountaineers well. They got a great workout, confidence and it put them on a roll toward a Final Four berth.
"A year ago I thought it was great for us. I thought it was great momentum,'' Huggins said. "But if we'd had to play four or five games? It's draining. It's physically draining and it's emotionally draining.''
All of which is why wins like Saturday's against DePaul are huge, because no matter whom it is against, every game counts.
By Dave Hickman
The Charleston Gazette
MORGANTOWN - There are, it can be argued, two ways to look at the fight for seeding in this year's Big East tournament.
It doesn't matter at all.
Or it makes every difference in the world.
Believe it or not, both can be legitimately argued.
West Virginia coach Bob Huggins, of course, is a proponent of the second of those two theories, that seeding means everything. That's why he was thrilled with another Big East win Saturday afternoon, even if it was the 82-71 victory against cellar dweller DePaul.
Forget the Big East tournament for a moment. The primary goal is to make it into the 68-team NCAA tournament field, which Huggins correctly argues is a lock for the Mountaineers provided they take care of business. Every win counts in that regard.
"We've got the fourth-best schedule in the country. We're 18th [actually 17th going into Saturday's games] or something in the RPI,'' Huggins said. "We're fine. We've just got to win some games.''
That whole Big East tournament seeding thing, though, is another matter entirely.
First, let's go with that first theory on how seeding isn't that important this season. The reason? Well, with eight current Top 25 teams comprising half the Big East field, and with five of the remaining eight teams owning at least one and sometimes more wins over those ranked teams, isn't the whole thing just a crapshoot?
If you're in that bottom half of the league, does it really matter if you're drawing Notre Dame or Villanova or Connecticut or Georgetown? What's the difference between that and drawing Syracuse, Louisville or West Virginia? Go ahead and name one team in that group that hasn't proven it can be beaten when few expect it to happen.
(Notice we omitted Pitt from that list. I'm still not convinced the Panthers aren't vulnerable, but to date they have not stumbled badly, so they get a pass here. OK, you don't want to be seeded eighth.)
Conversely, after the bottom eight teams finish with their play-in games on the opening Tuesday in New York, does it really matter who emerges to face the fifth-through-eighth seeds on Wednesday? Chances are good that the lower-seeded team there will have proven at some point during the season that it can play with the best, so is it really an advantage to draw, say, Seton Hall (a 22-point winner at Syracuse) or Rutgers (which just beat Villanova)? And shoot, the way things are going, it is very possible that one of those ninth- through-16th-place teams that play on Tuesday will be ranked.
So from that standpoint, no, seedings don't much matter. Just throw them all in a hat and see what comes out.
But while particular seeding spots don't seem to be terribly important this season, general seeding areas are. While it may not matter much whether a team is ninth or 12th or 16th, it certainly does matter to be in that ninth-through-16th area. In short, you don't want that. Those are the teams that have to play on Tuesday.
By the same token, while there is probably little difference between fifth and eighth place, being fifth through eighth matters because you don't play until Wednesday. And, of course, while first through fourth are interchangeable, just being first through fourth means not playing until Thursday.
"That's why seeding matters,'' Huggins said. "I don't know if there's ever been any league where you had to win five games. It's hard enough to win three.''
Indeed, playing on Tuesday means needing five wins in five days in the best conference in the history of basketball in order to win the tournament. Sorry, but that's not going to be done. Period.
So you'd better stay out of the bottom half of the standings.
But that's not going to be easy this year. The standings are so jumbled that even the coaches aren't always sure where they stand.
"What are we, in a five-way tie for something?'' Huggins asked Friday, the day before it all began to change again with a full slate of Big East games.
Well, yes, at that point the Mountaineers were in a five-way tie for seventh place. Tie-breakers at that point actually might have put West Virginia in the ninth spot, which would have meant a Tuesday game.
Or try this: As soon as Syracuse lost to Louisville Saturday, the Orange fell - at least temporarily - from sixth to 11th. This is a Syracuse team that four weeks ago was No. 4 in the country.
When WVU beat DePaul, the Mountaineers moved to within a game of third place. Then again, they were just a half game out of 11th place.
Of course, there are still three weeks remaining, so a lot can happen. But the point is that some really good teams are going to straddling that line between a Tuesday game and a bye. Further on up, just as many are going to toeing the line between a one-round bye and two days off.
That's certainly where seeding matters - not in who anyone plays, but how many.
"And the hard thing is you could conceivably play four ranked teams,'' Huggins said, apparently either discounting or failing to recognize that the number of ranked teams faced by a Tuesday participant could actually number five. "It's hard. It's a very difficult thing. There's not another league where you could conceivably end up playing four ranked teams.''
A year ago, West Virginia played just three games and won the tournament and it served the Mountaineers well. They got a great workout, confidence and it put them on a roll toward a Final Four berth.
"A year ago I thought it was great for us. I thought it was great momentum,'' Huggins said. "But if we'd had to play four or five games? It's draining. It's physically draining and it's emotionally draining.''
All of which is why wins like Saturday's against DePaul are huge, because no matter whom it is against, every game counts.
